Dusk Peterson ([info]duskpeterson) wrote,
@ 2009-06-03 13:39:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Entry tags:online serializations, story discussions, the eternal dungeon, the eternal dungeon story discussions

FIC: Rebirth 5: As a Seeker (The Eternal Dungeon)
Cover for Rebirth

New online fiction. Parental supervision is strongly suggested for this story.

If the High Seeker wants something, no power in life or death will hold him from taking it. What he wants now has brought danger to the Eternal Dungeon.

One of the jokes of the Eternal Dungeon was that Layle Smith had designed the Seekers' hoods, and that he had done so for the sole purpose of forcing prisoners to focus their attention upon his cold eyes. It was a joke that inevitably brought nervous laughter.

Comments, queries, and oodles of vigorous discussions are welcome.


(18 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]telepwen
2009-06-03 10:42 pm UTC (link)
I've been following this story since part one was put up on the website. I'd actually forgotten all about it until part two went up, and a friend I'd shared The Breaking with three years ago linked me to Love and Betrayal in excitement.

Now I'm bordering on a new addiction. (Damn you, I was trying to cut back on my internet usage.)

I'm not even sure where to start with feedback. Universes that are rich with details and depth always draw me in. Stories that are so well-written that they make me question my ability as a writer delight me.

I suppose I'll just start with part five. I do not envy Elsdon. It takes enormous love for him to do what he's doing, especially allowing Layle to bind him like that. Am I right in my impression that his panic at the shard of glass was not fear of being cut, but fear that Layle would release him and retreat back into his dreamings?

It's all the little pieces. Layle refusing to drink. The food being left by the door. The slow descent and the fight against it. The repetition of Kiss them from Elsdon's first time with Layle, which made it so clear that it was something he used to say to many (if not most or all) of his Vovimian prisoners--probably delighting in their confusion at his use of the plural and humiliation at the increased difficulty of kissing 'them' vice kissing 'it'.

Your characters are just so rich and complicated, I can really see them as actual people rather than just characters. And I'll try to stay active here at the discussions.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]duskpeterson
2009-06-07 11:56 pm UTC (link)
"Damn you, I was trying to cut back on my internet usage."

Heh. I can totally sympathize.

"Am I right in my impression that his panic at the shard of glass was not fear of being cut, but fear that Layle would release him and retreat back into his dreamings?"

That was certainly my impression, though another reader initially interpreted it as Elsdon's fear that Layle would kill himself.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-04 08:42 pm UTC (link)
Has it been Elsdon’s offer to allow Layle to act out his sadistic dreamings on him, that finally pushed Layle to become irreversible mad in order to prevent harm to Elsdon or the other prisoners? Even in his advanced state of mental illness he was still capable to put his needs behind these of Elsdon and to follow the Code by unbounding him in time. Was it the Code or his love that prevented him to accept Elsdon's offer? Could he have reacted likewise if his love for Elsdon hadn’t been so strong, or is it just this love that should be held responsible for that his sadistic dreamings had become so unbearable? The characters are so convincingly described and their history is so absorbing that I can’t stop myself to try to empathize with them to find some answers for these questions I ponder about in my mind.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]telepwen
2009-06-04 09:52 pm UTC (link)
I've actually been contemplating the very same thing. It's even a throwaway line in a little snippet of writing I did to appease my muse.

I think that it was a combination of love and the Code that prevented Layle. I think the love broke through just enough for his brain to latch on to the one sanity-saving life line it had clung to for twenty years. The Code is everything to Layle when he's in danger of slipping into dreamings. It's why he revised it, even.

But I don't think he could have reached the life line without the soul-connection he has with Elsdon. I think Elsdon helped him find enough soul to latch onto the most familiar thing--the Code.

Does that make any sense to you?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-05 07:00 am UTC (link)
Both love and the Code are the expressions of Layle's soul. He could love Elsdon exactly because he could see the Code as the suprime guide. This is like I understand it

Rose Red

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]telepwen
2009-06-05 05:21 pm UTC (link)
Well, yes, that makes sense, too.

Though I think they're not even so much expressions of his soul, rather expressions of how he wishes his soul could be.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-05 08:02 pm UTC (link)
I suppose if Layle wishes to be different, it is about his soul as well, esp. if he does everything to make his wish true

Rose Red

(Reply to this) (Parent)
When I reread the story in Nth time
(Anonymous)
2009-06-05 06:56 am UTC (link)
What brings me to wonder, it is how the characters of Dusk could be so noble, so self-sacrificing, and still so plausible, so humans-like.

Rose Red

(Reply to this)


(Anonymous)
2009-06-05 05:16 pm UTC (link)
Thanks telepwen and Rose Red. It makes indeed a lot of sense what you said. What a monster Layle could have become without his love for Elsdon and his self -imposed commitment to the Code. But a little doubt still lurks my mind - that his love for Elsdon was a catalist for his madness. When he realised he needs even to imagine the suffering of the only person he deeply loves to feel pleasure and than later when he even rendered possible Elsdon’s suffering in the Hidden Dungeon and recognized, he still couldn’t stop himself to take delight in Elsdon’s pain …It’s so well and convincingly written. The sequence of the events and the development of the characters are so coherently interconnected that in the end you can’t imagine another outcome.
Optimistic fatalist

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]telepwen
2009-06-05 05:23 pm UTC (link)
Could you imagine if Elsdon ever figured out that Layle would probably not have gone mad without his love for Elsdon?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-05 08:07 pm UTC (link)
I suppose in such case Eldson would ask : "Was it better for prisoners, or worse"? Anyway, the ED before Eldson was not a body that did not need a change (at least it is how I see it)

Rose Red

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]telepwen
2009-06-05 10:51 pm UTC (link)
Well, of course it needed a change. The sixth revision that Elsdon did proves that. But I'd imagine that it's always in need of a change as the world evolves and changes around it.

I wonder how many revisions there were total by the time the place closed its doors for the last time.

I don't think that Layle's madness was better for the prisoners. At best, it made no difference. I think. Thoughts?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-06 07:19 am UTC (link)
Not the madness itself, but whether Layle's love made it better or worse in such regard.

Rose Red

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]telepwen
2009-06-06 08:17 am UTC (link)
I'm still not sure it made a difference, considering how hard he works to keep his personal emotions out of his work. I hate to be a spoil sport to the whole "love makes all better" camp, but, well, um. Yeah. (Erudite closer, I know.)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-06 10:02 am UTC (link)
I am sure that a lesser author than Dusk would tell us exactly a story about all-saving love. Dusk does not, so we should try to look deeper. The question is : was all the hard work by Layle "to keep his personal emotions out of his work" helping? Was it even effective in the long run? Or was it anyway a catasrophe in waiting?

Rose Red

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-06 01:52 pm UTC (link)
Layle was able to keep his sadism in check with the help of the “Code” by reducing his sadistic drive to dreamings. He was able to hold himself at bay for so long. Perhaps he could have “survived “ longer without his love for Elsdon, because the faces of the people he tortured in his dreamings weren’t those of someone he loves.
Optimistic fatalist

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-08 05:44 pm UTC (link)
Yes, perhaps. But one could argue that Layle's love brought crisis which was more or less inevitable to the fore. It was a danger, but as well an opportunity (as usual with crisis)

Rose Red

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(Anonymous)
2009-06-05 09:42 pm UTC (link)
Mean question ;-) , but if you love someone and you know, that he has chosen madness to protect you (and even if you think you're only a symbol for any prisoner at this moment), you would feel guilty anyway.
Optimistic fatalist

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(18 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…